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Skwigg Blog
Saturday, 2 February 2008
...Or Don't Eat

After that "Yes, You. Eat!" post, I got lots of e-mails and comments from Turbulence Training people who practice intermittent fasting as outlined in Brad Pilon's Eat Stop Eat. (If you bought TT during the promo period a few weeks ago, Eat Stop Eat was one of your free bonuses.) So with a little prompting, I read Brad's whole e-book and then started researching intermittent fasting. I read until I was bleary-eyed. I learned all about mouse studies, insulin sensitivity, longevity, growth hormone, Alzheimer's, and our Paleolithic ancestors. Ok, so perhaps there's more to it than just a kooky weight loss scheme, and perhaps you won't actually flop over and die if you go more than 3 hours without a protein and carb balanced meal. 

In addition to reading about hungry mice, I picked up a couple of important logistical details. One, intermittent fasting doesn't necessarily mean decreasing your weekly food intake, just spacing it differently. Two, going 24 hours without food doesn't mean you go a whole day without a meal. You can stop eating after 6:00pm one day and start eating at 6:00pm the next day (or noon to noon, or 9:00am to 9:00am, whatever works). That way you're eating every day, it's just kind of a banzai zig-zag.

You know what's coming next don't you? I had to try it just to see what all the fuss was about. Yes, Skwigg, the most enthusiastic eater of all, went 24 hours without food! I was fully expecting to go crazy, pass out, feel like hell, binge eat, hallucinate, and possibly consume the television remote while daydreaming about Hostess Ho-Hos. Do you know what actually happened? Nothing. My stomach growled once in awhile, but other than that I felt good.

I stopped eating after dinner on Wednesday. That was no big, I just skipped my bedtime yogurt. I got up Thursday morning and did my Turbulence Training workout and walked the dogs. I drank my tea. I went to work. No problemo. No headache. I didn't get shaky or sleepy, and I didn't lapse into a brain fog. And I was really worried about my concentration because I have a very technical, numbers-oriented job. All day, I think things like 22 hours 34 minutes 30 seconds, plus 18 minutes and 35 seconds equals 22:53:05. And if I make a mistake, commercial breaks hit wrong and I cost the company thousands of dollars. (No pressure or anything.) But I was actually sort of weirdly alert and energetic, like a crackhead, only without the twitching and talking to myself.

I planned it so that I would finish my 24 hour fast when I was at work. That meant that I would come off of it with nothing around to eat except for the healthy food I'd brought with me. When it was time for me to eat again, I wasn't overly hungry and didn't have any urge to binge. That surprised me more than anything. I was expecting that a day without food might trigger my old binge/starve cycle, but it felt nothing like that, maybe because I'm well-fed in general, maybe because I've lost my old weight hang-ups. I don't know, but I resumed my normal meals like nothing had happened.

If you wanted to use intermittent fasting to create a calorie deficit, I can see how going a few hours without food once or twice a week might be easier for some people (certainly not everyone) than daily calorie restriction. For myself, I found that it was actually a relief to take a day off from planning food, preparing food, packing food, eating food, and then washing tupperware (my normal daily existence). I was surprised that I felt good. I was sure that the workout would kill me, or at least make me nauseous, but it was fine.

So, what does all of this mean? I have no idea. I haven't really drawn any conclusions. I did it out of curiosity more than anything else. I did lose 4 pounds in one day, all water I'm sure, but I can see how that kind of thing would make scale-watchers dizzy with glee. As long as you're lifting weights and eating enough overall, you're not supposed to lose any muscle with IF. I gather that "intermittent" is the key word in all of this. There's no way I would recommend a consistently low calorie intake or a week-long juice fast or anything nutty. If you're training hard, the fuel has to come from somewhere, but maybe it doesn't have to come in 6 evenly spaced meals every single day. Maybe you could deliberately jack up the pattern, randomize it a little bit, and get even better results with a sharp zig-zag on your daily intake. Maybe. I'm certainly not saying that everybody should run out and try this. There's probably a whole slew of people who should never try it under any circumstances. If you want to read more, both pro and con, google "intermittent fasting" and you'll pull up all kinds of interesting stuff.

Anybody else out there tried this with good or bad results? 


Posted by skwigg at 1:37 AM CST

Saturday, 2 February 2008 - 5:25 AM CST

Name: "Zsuzsa"

Hey, Skwigg!

 

I started IF in December, I'm doing it with a "compressed feeding window" or whatever, that means I'm eating 6-8 hours a day, as per the advice of the CrossFit-guys, especially Robb Wolf.  So I'm just skipping breakfast, start eating around noon, then have an early dinner. I lost some bodyfat and have the same level of energy for my workouts. My concentration has improved and I'm enjoying it for the same reasons as you. Thanks for this entry!

Zs 

Saturday, 2 February 2008 - 7:23 AM CST

Name: "Tiffany"

I tried just recently ... and it wasn't pretty. Which is strange since I'm a hairdresser and we are notorious for going long stretches at a time without food anyway. Before I started PN/TT, I sometimes went for six, eight, twelve hours without eating and it never bothered me. A couple of weeks ago, I decided to try intermittent eating after reading about it. I made it about five hours and almost hit the floor ... my boss literally poured orange juice down my throat because I was shaking and on the verge of passing out. Then I ate half a turkey sandwich and felt normal again about 20 minutes later. Clearly, my body is dependent on those every 2-3 hour feedings at the moment. So no more intermittent fasting for me, at least for now :)

Saturday, 2 February 2008 - 12:26 PM CST

Name: "Joanne"

I did the Warrior Diet about 3 years ago. Ended up to be the worst thing I did because guess what? Someone got greedy for weight loss and I ended up with an ED.  My "warrior's feast" ended up being very, very tiny.  Add that to lots of intense exercise and welcome to the wonderful world of amenorrhea.

If someone can handle it and it's only once a week. That's cool, but you can't be someone who was a total yo-yoer or have body issues or have suffered from hypothalamic amenorrhea I wouldn't suggest it.

 

 

Saturday, 2 February 2008 - 12:34 PM CST

Name: "Joanne"

Oh by the way...eating is way more fun!

 

Saturday, 2 February 2008 - 3:35 PM CST

Name: "Raechelle"
Home Page: http://raechellesblog.blogspot.com/

I fasted for a day once about 10 years ago-for spiritual reasons. I definitely would not do it now becasue I'm getting ready for a figure comp-and trying to build muscle-and just don't see the point of starving my body while it's trying to recuperate on a regular basis from heavy workouts.

Just doesn't seem like a great idea to me-but that's my opinion!

Sunday, 3 February 2008 - 6:45 AM CST

Name: "CJ"

Very interesting.  I am wondering how much of the 4 pounds remained "off".    I have fasted in the past but I can honestly attribute that to being stress related.

Sunday, 3 February 2008 - 9:23 AM CST

Name: skwigg

Two days later, 3.8 lbs are still gone. That shocked me. I expected it to bouce right back up, but I did the fast in the 24 hours after a free day. So, I think I just lost the carb and sodium bloat (+ 1 more pound) immediately instead of over a couple of days.

Sunday, 3 February 2008 - 10:25 AM CST

Name: "Carrie"
Home Page: http://afterburneffect.blogspot.com

I've been working on getting myself to a place where I could do the IF for awhile now.  However, I still haven't made it past 6 hours before I'm feeling weird, my stomach's constant talking is making others look, and I can't think straight.

 Perhaps I'll get to that point one day.  For right now though, I'm just working on kicking up the nutrition factor a couple notches more.

IF works great for ppl who have tried it; the weight comes off and stays off.  But it truly just doesn't work for some people.  Each person has to know their own body, perhaps try it once, and see if it works for them. 

Sunday, 3 February 2008 - 2:35 PM CST

Name: "Sara"
Home Page: http://sanafit.blogspot.com

Yep, I'm doing TT and started an 'Eat-Stop-Eat' approach two weeks ago.  The first week I did one 20 hour fast, one maintenance day and the rest of the week was at slight calorie deficit.  I lost 1.5lb.  This last week I did two fasting days and ate at maintenance for the other days as Brad Pilon suggests, in fact he got a bit antsy on the TT forum about people still dieting on their non-fasting days.  Anyway, calories worked out about the same over the week and I lost just over half a pound.  I mean it's usual for fatloss to be a bit up and down, so I'm giving Eat-Stop-Eat another few weeks to see how it works out.  I only fast 20 hours, from 8pm to 4pm (or 7pm to 3pm) and it's really not hard.  As an ex E.D. myself I was questioning my sanity, but also curious to try it. I really like that I can eat at maintenance on non-fasting days AND it gives me practice as to what 'eating at maintenance' really is (i.e. you still don't get to snarf without control, dammit).  So, positive experience so far.  BTW have you seen Brad Pilon?  He's definitely not thin and pasty himself and this is the best advertisement for his system.  He has chinky abs.

Sunday, 3 February 2008 - 3:29 PM CST

Name: "MK"
Home Page: http://www.mkstover.com

I had much the same results as you, Skwigg. It's not a big deal; I was surprised. I've been doing it for about a month, maybe once or twice a week, but I'm not keeping track, just keeping it random.

I think that if I was approaching IF from a scale-watching perspective, I would drive myself over the edge and deep into nut-dom. I've been committed to overcoming all my schizo food issues for several years; I'm not sure this is something that would have been good for the brain at any point in the past. 

But, for now, it IS a relief to not have to eat every three hours. How weird is that?

Sunday, 3 February 2008 - 4:55 PM CST

Name: "Trojan"

I imagine I'd get the shakes, grumpy and probably get fired for saying stupid things to my boss in my hungry stupor.

 

It's not a path for me:)

Sunday, 3 February 2008 - 5:42 PM CST

Name: "Gail"

It's funny that you would bring this topic up. I am considering fasting for spiritual reasons. Basically as an act of obdience to God. But I was worried that I might turn it into a "crash diet" mentality which is NOT spiritual. So I am planning a fast but I specifically DONT want it to be about losing weight. Interesting post:)

Monday, 4 February 2008 - 8:54 AM CST

Name: "unschooler"

I'm Mormon so I've done a 24 hour fast once a month since I was 8- wtih breaks for being pregnant and nursing.  I've found that starting after a lunch and going to the next lunch works best for me since I have minor blood sugar issues. 

And yeah, it is amazing how good you feel and how easy it is.  Plus, after a fast my blood sugar is much more stable for a few days.

Monday, 4 February 2008 - 9:01 AM CST

Name: "Kate"

I wish I'd tried it now, LOL.

I got the bonus a month ago when I purchased TT - but I immediately deleted it thinking it was garbage after being told for so long that fasting and skipping meals wrecks your metabolism and also causes the body to go into starvation mode and hold onto your fat.

I also have insulin issues and have always been told I must eat every 3 hours etc etc and have been a diligent grazer ever since.

You girls are very brave :-)

Kate. 

 

Monday, 4 February 2008 - 1:59 PM CST

Name: "jennifer"

I love your blog, although I have never commented.  But I had to jump in on this one.  I have been using eat-stop-eat for about 5 months now and I love it.  I loathe the day to day restrictions of losing body fat.  This program has changed my life.  I enjoy my fasting days and I am super productive.  I also have a job that requires being totally focused and the fasts do not dampen my productivity.

I am an active person and have even knocked out the 300 workout on a fast day.  There never is one-size-fits all program out there.  I am just beyond happy that this one is effortless for me.

Monday, 4 February 2008 - 4:24 PM CST

Name: "Marla"
Home Page: http://nowissomeday.blogspot.com

This is a very interesting idea, and I'm thinking about trying it out. I've fasted for 24 hours two or three times--the first time just to see if I could do it (answer:yes) and then I suppose for the same reason the other couple times. I drank a lot of water and surprisingly felt pretty good all day. I didn't have the blood sugar problems that I would have expected. I didn't try to do anything physically strenuous, but I wasn't entirely sedentary either: I spent about 7 hours in a museum looking at exhibits (which kept my mind off my stomach) and that included 6 or 7 trips out to the parking lot to drink the water I had stashed in my car.

 I've always envied and admired how much you eat. Really, I love it! I don't "believe" in low-calorie dieting, in a sort of political sense; I don't like the culture of deprivation. I definitely see it as a feminist issue. Unfortunately, when I eat 1800+ calories, I gain weight. My politics don't match my physical reality! I'm like the Jennifer who commented in the "Eat" post: I do everything right, I eat lean protein and lots of vegetables, I rarely ever touch a grain, I lift weights, I do interval cardio... but the weight doesn't come off. It's frustrating, if not enraging, to keep hearing the caloriesin/caloriesout equation. According to the numbers, I should weigh 30 pounds by now, which means that something in that equation is not right. I KNOW the "in" part, and I can make a good estimate on the "out" part, so there's some other factor that just doesn't add up right.

 It confirms my belief that people are fat (for lack of a more pc word) for different reasons. I know that goes against the common knowledge, but I think it's true. If the causes were the same, then the same treatment should be efffective for everyone.

Anyway, sorry for the gigantic comment, and I think I'll try this fasting idea. I don't have any ED issues; I can see that it would be dangerous for someone who did.

Monday, 4 February 2008 - 7:56 PM CST

Name: "RD"

I've been doing it. seems like a perfectly reasonable way to get your caloric deficit in plus the benefits of the 24 hours fast. It's really refreshing to not HAVE to eat and I usually feel really good. I even go to sparring class before my meal and I do fine, maybe better than when carbed up plus for some reason I don't have to ice everything afterward.

I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who gets panicky at the thought of not eating or will use it as an excuse to eat extra before or after the fast, tho. 

Monday, 4 February 2008 - 9:22 PM CST

Name: "unschooler"

I'm not really brave.  I guess because I've done it most of my life, I knew that it was okay.  I was actually surprised that people didn't know if they could do it, it's such a part of my subculture that it seems normal.

Tuesday, 5 February 2008 - 10:09 AM CST

Name: "Bonnie"
Home Page: http://www.generalismo.com

I've fasted a few times in my life, mostly for spiritual reasons but the last time I did it I got really shaky and naseous. I had planned to make it the entire day without food, but when supper time came I was so sick I decided I'd just make it 24 hours and I ate a little after when I ate supper the night before. I didn't have the urge to binge either, although the next days afterwards I tended to think "I have a calorie deficit, so a bite of "that" won't hurt." I'll be so excited if this comment goes through, I've been wanting to coment on a lot of your posts but my browser has always been fincky and froze up when I tried - it just occurred to me now to try a different browser!

Did you work out as normal on your fast period? I try to keep activity to a minimum, or I feel really tired.

Tuesday, 5 February 2008 - 11:27 AM CST

Name: "Saracious"

I have had excellent results, but a key issue is that you have to have been eating clean for months before you do the fasting. Otherwise, the minute you stop eating, your body starts to detoxify (and I mean this in a scientific, not new-agey sense), and you'll feel awful until you clog up your body with more junk again---like happens with cigarettes or caffiene--you feel worse when you are cleaning yourself out and better when you stop the cleaning. But you eat pretty clean, there's not a lot to clean out so fasting feels fine, even great. So sadly, the people that need fasting the most (that need the internal cleaning), will be most likely to find it unpleasant and not do it.

Dr. Joel Fuhrman's Fasting and Eating for Health is an excellent book, a medical doctor's take on fasting, with lots of references on the benefits. Fasting is excellent for longevity and certain illnesses, as long as you combine it with an excellent diet. If you break a fast with garbage, you could do more harm than anything.

Tuesday, 5 February 2008 - 1:03 PM CST

Name: skwigg

I did my normal strength training workout, took the dogs for a jog and was my normal spazzy self. If anything, I felt a little bit buzzed and more energetic. I even cleaned the house, and that almost never happens. :-D

I don't know if the pleasant buzz was from the lack of food so much as the abbundance of caffeine. I drank unsweetened green tea and black tea all day, which is what I normally do, but usually there's some food in my stomach to maybe take the edge off a little. With no food, I was goofy little ball of energy, pacing around and talking with my arms and stuff. Of course, I guess that's fairly normal behavior from me. ;-)

Wednesday, 6 February 2008 - 10:29 AM CST

Name: "chili"

After reading this thread I decided to try fasting for the first time. I was hesitant at first since it seemed a bit like a "hollywood" thing to do to lose some lbs fast. Plus I knew if I did it, I'd want to hide it from the people around me and I tend to think that if I'm sneaking food it's a bad thing so if I'm sneaking NOT eatting it's probably a bad thing too.

I went from noon til noon, which worked great for me since I dont' have kids but I do have nosey co-workers. I think the first 4-5 hrs were the hardest mentally and the last 2 hrs were the hardest to actually stay away from food. But I did it, and it really wasn't that difficult. I lost 3.4 lbs but I too was just coming off of a free day and I'm sure a lot of that would have come off anyway.

My workout that day went very well and I was very alert. I hopped right out of bed that morning and didnt' feel sluggish at all until AFTER I finally ate. I did find myself allowing bites here and there of things I normally wouldn't eat. I'm afraid that might be a slippery slope, even though we're not suppose to "diet", if left to my whims I can be quite the piggy (as proven over the holidays).

I'm definitly going to try it again.

Wednesday, 6 February 2008 - 12:29 PM CST

Name: "sandy"

Very interesting read.  I've always been nervous about trying this because I do tend to get kind of shakey when I don't eat.  After reading these comments I think I'll give it a try starting right now!  I just finished a good workout followed by a full healthy lunch, so I should be able to go the rest of the day sans food.  I do have a swim workout planned tonight...but what's the worst that can happen  ....wish me luck!  I'll look forward to my next healthy lunch tomorrow!

Wednesday, 6 February 2008 - 5:31 PM CST

Name: "Jennifer P"

Hey Renee,

My experience with the Eat-Stop-Eat fasting was very much like yours.  I posted last week about my experience with it and I'm happy to say I'm still doing it and still losing weight.  Now, I must admit I haven't hopped on my scale yet.  I use the "pant" method.  If they're loose, something's working.  And they keep getting looser.  I think I'll try weighing myself this weekend though....

I do one or two fasts each week and it's amazing how "not hungry" I am at the end of the fast and also how good I really feel.  And that's after workout as well.  Sure, my stomach growls a bit but it goes away.   As a major foodie, I thought for sure I'd fall over and die not eating every few hours but that has not been my experience.   And when I'm not fasting I just eat clean and healthy as I normally do.  And like you, I found it almost easier to not have to pack a lunch and worry about what to eat the next day.  Just lotsa water, tea and coffee (I drink a special non-acidic 'healthy coffee' containing the reishi mushroom so I don't get jittery, but it does keep me alert...)

Well I'm really glad you tried it and didn't find it horribly excruciating.  The fasting has also made me think twice before putting anything in my mouth just because my stomach starts to growl a bit.  I know I won't die of starvation if I wait until my next meal.  :-)  It's true that fasting is not for everyone but for some of us it is probably the easiest way to manage the caloric intake throughout the week.

Thanks again for all your great posts!  You keep us all informed and entertained.

Jennifer

PS - I also love your book reviews.  I just ordered "Loving What is" and can't wait to read it.....

Thursday, 7 February 2008 - 10:47 AM CST

Name: "regina"

I did a 20 hour fast, although after I ate I wondered why I didn't make it a full 24-hour one!  I did it from 6pm-2pm, and I think starting the fast after dinner is a really nice way to go because the first half of your fast is while you're sleeping!  I did get a bit 'cracky' from all the caffeine on an empty stomache; I think I'll add some herbal tea into the mix instead of all caffeine drinks next time.  I'm a stay-at-home-mom and that was an INTENSELY rainy day (the kind with mud slides, no power, trees falling) so we didn't leave the house  until after my fast was over, and that was only for some puddle-stompin' fun.  So being home-bound on a rainy day was not conducive to fasting, I think it would be easier if I'd have been busy out of the home.  I believe that boredom led to me ending the fast early!  I did have a good kick-start to some weight loss, about 4lb which stayed off, and I'm looking forward to doing it again next week.  My summary is that it was such a non-event!  Nothing like I thought it would be, and it was definitely much better than doing a fast where you start in the morning and don't eat again til the next morning!

Thursday, 7 February 2008 - 8:48 PM CST

Name: "Gail"

Well, I tried my very first 24 hour fast on Tuesday! It was to go sundown Tuesday (about 5:30) to sundown Wednesday. I last ate a snack between 4:00 and 5:00 pm Tuesday. I went home after work. My family ate. I just drank tea. I didn't feel hungry at all. About 9:30 I went to bed and I was finally hungry then. I wondered if I would be able to fall asleep because I was really getting hungry but I did. I woke up at 12:30 am and I felt very weird, kind of weak, shaky, buzzy (for lack of a better word) and headachy. In the middle of the night all alone I guess I kind of panicked or something. I held out fasting for about two hours until 2:30 am and then I just decided that it wasn't working. I felt REALLY bad and I had a BIG day at work the next day and I needed to get some sleep. So I got up, ate a half of banana and 1/2c of cereal and milk (and a tylinol and 1/2 sleeping pill). Finally I fell back asleep. In the morning, I got up and had breakfast. I tried to fast again between 10:00am  and 2:00pm  (lunch) but at 12:00pm I was starving again so I decided to eat a healthy lunch and declare my fast officially over.

 Perhaps I am one of those "bad eaters" that the previous poster was talking about who, when they fast, the "toxins" come out. It is also possible that I just "stressed" too much about the fast. I really don't know why it didn't go well with me. I really didn't expect it to go that badly. It took a whole day of regular eating for me to feel "normal" again.

The fast wasn't a total loss though because I was very aware of what I was putting in my mouth. I'd be willing to try again but I think I would start with less time, say 10 to 12 hours and build on that if I decide to do it again at all.

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